Non-Press Review of Forza 5

"ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)" (adabofoppo) 11/25/2013 at 14:37 • Filed to: Forza 5

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After getting to play Fivetza for a few hours Sunday, my reaction is as follows:

Wow, that's really very pretty.

Where's the rest of the game?!

Why The Fuck did they change that!!!!?!

Needless to say, it feels very much like only half a game. The Marketplace isn't even running yet! It's also so unbelievably dumbed-down it's ridiculous.

Once you watch the cool into video with Clarkson's narration, you have to race the P1 around Prague with all the assist on. Then you have to choose a car, and complete 5 races before you are allowed to access any game menus.

You can adjust your assists and "Drivatar" difficulty during your initial "season" but I found it really aggravating that I wasn't allowed to go do what I wanted immediately. You're also driving a stock car initially, so you can't crank up the difficulty without being outmatched since you haven't been allowed to upgrade yet.

They did however, finally give us white wheels, but it's the same catalog as 4; I did not see any new designs. There is also matte paint for the all the cars. I did not play around with the vinyl editor to see if you can choose a matte finish there.

Overall, I am not blown away. In fact I'd call my initial impression underwhelmed.

They've changed in-game menu controls. You can always rewind, without penalty aside from a 'dirty' lap. So there is no bonus The credits pay out like they did in 3, so making money is much slower, but you can always buy "tokens" to speed up you progression and bonuses for short while.

In their effort to make racing "more accessible" Turn10 have done a very good job of cutting out the steep learning curve that makes racing so rewarding once you master it. I'm sure it's probably the greatest thing ever if some kid is getting the XBone as their first console for Christmas. However, if you've ever played a racing game before, especially the previous Forzas, this feels half-assed and overly simplified.

There is no Maple Valley, no Tsukuba, no Sunset Peninsula, no Suzuka, no Nurburgring. Yas Marina is a terrible track. Spa is terrifying. Bathurst is insane. I do not comprehend how those Aussies do it in 3,000 pound V8 Supercars.

If anyone was waiting for a solid review before buying an XBone and Fivetza, please find a away to play it for yourself first. I am not filled with an overwhelming desire to go buy it right away.

Since there is no AI, you get the distinct impression you are racing against real people. For right now, they are very dumb people as the traffic is always making idiotic mistakes, which makes you make mistakes, which gets recorded by your DoppelDriver, who then makes mistakes when racing for you, which causes...etc etc etc. It's really very bad.

But, traffic does not feel anything like it did before. There is a decent amount of "rubbin' is racing" without ruining laps. Do not expect your car to be pristine when the race is over.

I felt like I would have done better if I had the time to relearn my braking points. Since they added so much eye-candy (distraction) to the tracks it is very hard to judge braking distances without total concentration.

They changed the way races are scored, so you can finish top 3 and get "gold" points. It does encourage you to increase the DoppelDriver (I'm trademarking this right away) difficulty, but there is no perfect level. I used my typical assists; ABS, normal steering, manual, TCS/Stability Off, and no driving lines only gives you a 35% bonus. You can have the Drivertards at -10 to +65%. I had them at +10% which is 'hard' and once I was in front, I stayed there easily. Increasing the drivers to +15% made it very hard to get out in front, especially around the tracks I hadn't raced before and because I didn't have my braking points yet.

You can tell there is some good stuff, but it just feels rushed and unfinished. Add to that all the stuff we had in 4 for free that is now going to be DLC, and I start to feel more like a wallet than a fan.

Pessimippopotamus > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 11/25/2013 at 14:41

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Forza Six !!!

CAR_IS_MI > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 11/25/2013 at 14:42

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So its basically exactly what I expected, and Turn 10 is slowly killing the Forza brand. First with Horizon, now with FM5.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Pessimippopotamus 11/25/2013 at 14:43

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I'm afraid I don't understand. Care to elaborate?

Osiris - I can haz Euro spec? > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 11/25/2013 at 14:45

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I know I'm going to get Fiveza. I already got the XBone (for $99 by the way, more on that later) but the real reason I'm pissed with Turn 10 is the fact that they took my favorite track away. I love Maple Valley. It's by far my favorite track. It just angers me.

OkCars- 22k Crossroads > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 11/25/2013 at 14:46

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I just have a comment here. Yas marina is a really cool track, just get the hang of it, memorize it. f1 drivers say they like it. Spa is amazing you just need to memorize it as well, when you make a good lap on that track, its pretty rewarding (talking from the f1 2012 game). All drivers in f1 like Spa.

THOMAS5 > Pessimippopotamus 11/25/2013 at 14:46

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Exactly what I was thinking. Forza 5 was rushed in order to come out at the same time as the xbox one. I'll let them take their sweet time on forza 6

Chase > Osiris - I can haz Euro spec? 11/25/2013 at 14:49

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how in the hell did you get a One for $99?!?

CAR_IS_MI > Osiris - I can haz Euro spec? 11/25/2013 at 14:49

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Right, they said they were removing tracks because they couldn't re-scan them for the new better quality of Xbone, but MV is a fake track to start with, i.e. no scanning, so what the hell T10?

Pessimippopotamus > THOMAS5 11/25/2013 at 14:50

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Yeah. It's quite telling when most reviewers are saying that Forza 5 is the most polished of all launch games so far, but it still has less content than FM4 (which, honestly is a bit unfair since FM4 is culmination of all of Forza's work from FM2). I'm sure all the gripes that Forza fans have over 5 will be fixed by game #6. More cars and tracks just need more time. Game balance will be more nuanced after more fan feedback, etc etc.

Takuro Spirit > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 11/25/2013 at 14:52

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They can have Fourza when they pry it from my DEAD FUCKING HANDS.

matthewklein220 > OkCars- 22k Crossroads 11/25/2013 at 14:52

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I seem to be the only person amongst my friends who feels braking through Eau Rouge is optional. The look on my friend's face when I flew past him in a Beetle was priceless.

Pessimippopotamus > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 11/25/2013 at 14:52

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Getting a launch title for a new console is always a risk. I think I'll wait for Turn10 to settle into their new game engine for Xbox One, and hopefully it can add a lot more cars by Forza 6 and adjust game balance as necessary. Thanks for a review from a fan's perspective.

Joe_Limon > CAR_IS_MI 11/25/2013 at 14:53

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The op is correct on many accounts, but for everything they took away, they seemed to have added something special in its place.
I.e. fewer cars... But now autovista on every single car! I love kicking tyres, opening doors and hearing the vehicles start up. Especially since now you can walk around custom liveries, and not just basic colours.
Beloved tracks are gone... But there are new ones, prague is effing beautiful, and has an amazing combination of smooth banked corners and jittery cobble to keep your attention.
Less emphasis on building a car to meet a class... But the build options are still there and improved, i.e. awd 350hp 1500lb lotus elan for autox is possible!

MtrRider Just Wants Doritos > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 11/25/2013 at 14:53

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Just give them another year and another $50 and I'm sure the game will start to slowly piece itself together.

Joe_Limon > CAR_IS_MI 11/25/2013 at 14:53

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Double post

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Takuro Spirit 11/25/2013 at 14:58

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This can be arranged...

DatASSun > Osiris - I can haz Euro spec? 11/25/2013 at 14:59

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more on that now as to how you got a xbox 1 for 99 dollars .. 123 go

Pessimippopotamus > CAR_IS_MI 11/25/2013 at 15:02

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It's more like Turn10 having to redevelop everything for FM5. It's a bit unfair to compare it to FM4, especially, since FM4's based off of collected assets from all the previous games (like how some cars are updated versions of FM3 and FM2 car models). I'm sure a lot of the gripe comes from having to meet the insanely competitive release schedule Turn10 has for Forza.

And I can see why this is more aimed at the casual crowd. It's MS's in-house launch title. It needs to be more casual. It sucks for fans, but from every other conceivable angle, it makes sense. But once the console is more established (in 2 year's time), I'm sure all the fan feedback will make the next game more specialized.

*Also, Turn10 is not directly responsible for Horizon. It was developed by a British studio using Forza assets.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > CAR_IS_MI 11/25/2013 at 15:03

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Technically Horizon was Playground Games, not Turn10. T10 only allowed their Forza trademark to help with licensing and contributed to the car handling models.

/Pedantic/

I do agree that their effort make "Racers into gamers and Gamers into Racers" has done a huge disservice to the Racing Game genre. Most of those borderline people are going to be happy with anything as long as it looks pretty and has a few of their favorite cars.

Meanwhile the hard-core most loyal fans are screaming and begging for options to keep the game interesting after 2+ years of repeated playing; pit-stops, tire wear, longer races, more and more difficult tracks, etc.

Turn10 clearly does not care at all. And as a result, I will probably not upgrade consoles. So if there was any doubt, you have it writing MS/T10. You have cost yourselves at least one sale.

TheBaron2112 > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 11/25/2013 at 15:03

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Yeah, seeing impressions made me cancel my preorder and not buy an Xbone. So because Turn 10 rushed a game to release, they and MS missed out on about $800 from me.

They can suck it.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Joe_Limon 11/25/2013 at 15:08

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I do not care for Autovista. It's fun exactly once .

I'd rather have more places to race my cars. And far less hand-holding. It's a racing, you buy cars and race to get more game-money to buy more cars to race to get more...

I do not appreciate not being able to jump into the game how I feel I want to start.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > THOMAS5 11/25/2013 at 15:14

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Except they won't be allowed to take their sweet time because MS demands a solid 2-year release cycle.

I'd much rather them be honest with their fans, and say "Hey, we're working on making this game great, but it's going to need a little more time. Okay with that?" Most fans will wait.

The sales they might lose as a result aren't really fans anyway, they just want the next new shiny thing, and will play for a couple months until something else new comes along. Screw them. Give your loyal, and vocal fans what they want.

OkCars- 22k Crossroads > matthewklein220 11/25/2013 at 16:05

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yeah i think it depends on how you took the curve, when im in f1 2012 i dont brake most times, but when i overtake somebody on the straight before the turn with kers sometimes i go a little bit faster and just blip the brake and i get the corner.

Joe_Limon > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 11/25/2013 at 16:08

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To each their own. Personally I love auto vista, it is like having my own virtual garage. When racing, the only time I actually see the exterior of the car is when the race starts/finishes. That small glimpse plus interior details/handling is simply not enough for me to fall in love with a car.

Taking the time to explore the nitty details really adds a lot to my experience.

Also, the hand holding is totally voluntary. You choose how much you want. Personally, I ditched out on career mode and am more then happy in free play, hanging around 50% drivatar bonus, no tcs/abs/line, manual, and simulation steering. The only hand holding I get is cosmetic damage and I use about 5% rewind per race due to drivatars cutting me off.

matthewklein220 > OkCars- 22k Crossroads 11/25/2013 at 16:10

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Outside of the Lotus, I do have to blip the brakes to shift the weight onto the front wheels, but I can still take it at a speed that feels like I'm going Mach 1.

OkCars- 22k Crossroads > matthewklein220 11/25/2013 at 16:13

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haha i was going to say that about shifting the weight to the front, but i didnt know if maybe you'd say im exaggerating, but the game does respond to that.

matthewklein220 > OkCars- 22k Crossroads 11/25/2013 at 16:16

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Oh it does completely! Weight shift is noticeable in most of those games!

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Joe_Limon 11/25/2013 at 16:16

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I'm sure a lot of people feel that way as well. I'm not saying they shouldn't make all their car models this way.

However, doing this to exclusion of other features that do not take long to implement, like allowing for a pit-stop setting in multi-player, realistic tire wear/fuel useage, non-mandatory assist setting that will make the game more difficult in addition to the standard AI scale.

I get that tracks take a long time to model. They could confirm they will add more later to increase the likelihood people who care for such things - and there are many, many who have been asking for more tracks for years now - might buy the game knowing there will be more content they like coming. T10 just stays too quiet about content.

Joe_Limon > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 11/25/2013 at 17:14

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If Turn 10 did include previous content that they haven't been able to update, then you would have a next gen game with clear last gen parts. Playing through, anybody would be able to spot the inconsistency in their attention to detail. To me, this would destroy the quality of the game.

Gt6 gets ripped on for its clear regurgitation of old/outdated models. Could you imagine how bad it would have been if the game was released on the PS4 with a handful of shit carried over from the PS2?

Yes, I miss some of the old content, but no, I do not wish to see it age as a constant reminder of what I used to think was good. But now has become subpar. Keep the memories lie as good memories.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Joe_Limon 11/25/2013 at 17:20

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I did not say they should include it without updating.

They could however confirm the are working on updating older content, which will be available at a later time.

Right, and as usual, there is no word whatsoever on what they are working on including. Some interaction with their fanbase would be nice. An acknowledgment that they have heard our suggestions, and while they can't get to all of them, are trying to include the most popular things.

Joe_Limon > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 11/25/2013 at 18:04

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I think it goes without saying that they are always working on generating content. The trouble with announcing what they are working on is that it removes dev flexibility. For example you state that Turn 10 announces that their team has just left the airport to rescan the ring. Now the fanbase has it stuck in their head that they are getting an updated ring map. Then, as weeks turn into months, they are forced to work on it regardless of whether they run into any technical limitations, for example scanning the ring at their new resolution might yield a map that takes up too much ram and causes terrible performance. By not telling, they can allocate their resources elsewhere as soon as they find out the snag. By telling however they would be forced to finish developing a flawed product, tarnishing their name, or worse yet, abandon it, and tarnish their name by letting everyone down.

It is a double edged sword. All you really have to know is that until they announce no more games, is that they will be continually developing content, whether it is for monthly car packs, the rare occasional map pack, or even for content for the next iteration of the franchise.